some of you may have missed the beginning of this. this is very personal and i wasn't going to post it, but here it is. i hope you leave me some feedback at the end.
bdkinz: I see. maybe you're being too forthcoming
brdmstryx: how so?
bdkinz: and not playing head games enough
brdmstryx: i don't know how
bdkinz: I know. guys like having a little challenge, sometimes. but it might be that this is the problem.
brdmstryx: consistently over the years, it has been.
bdkinz: basically, guy wants to still be knight in shining armor, though appreciates a strong woman.
brdmstryx: i know. and i allow for that. but not when it comes to me
bdkinz: are you sure
brdmstryx: it's open and honest between us. but i let guys know when i need them
bdkinz: exactly
brdmstryx: and i'm v needy in an attention craving way
bdkinz: you tell us too much, sometimes
brdmstryx: and an "i can't do this, help me" way. well, you guys are always telling me you can't figure it out on your own, and you wish we would tell you.
bdkinz: which is true
brdmstryx: so i do as you've all asked
bdkinz: but we don’t want someone else to do it, always. It makes us feel incompetent. and while guys are, very often, they need to have a way to figure it out themselves. at least for many of them.
brdmstryx: I’m not exactly following. the way they seem to figure it out themselves is to do nothing
bdkinz: ah, that’s the first mistake. let me begin. man feels need to be in charge. it doesn’t mean in charge practically, but it means the feeling of control.
brdmstryx: ok. why the assumption that women don’t need the same?
bdkinz: I’m not denying it.
brdmstryx: guys want control of every situation, women wants control of their lives
bdkinz: this is true
brdmstryx: when the two butt heads, are we supposed to step back and let them determine the course of events?
bdkinz: no. but, to tell a man what to do every step of the way removes his independence, and then – loss of control.
brdmstryx: of course. but when subtle hints get you nowhere?
bdkinz: then sometimes be more overt. and sometimes don’t. it’s all about compromise and encroaching on space
brdmstryx: and when they still don't call, for example, on a regular basis. or even quasi-regular
bdkinz: then, there is a great problem
brdmstryx: yet when they're around they're totally into you
bdkinz: right. we are visual people, not phone people
brdmstryx: does not the women have the right to find out what the heck is going on?
bdkinz: she does
brdmstryx: ok, let's say no phone. getting together
bdkinz: ok
brdmstryx: is that good?
bdkinz: this is easier
brdmstryx: ok
bdkinz: yes, we like that
brdmstryx: so he's around once in a while
bdkinz: right
brdmstryx: but then he'll disappear
bdkinz: that is normal. men need space and time
brdmstryx: and she'll say "huh, funny, you were gone a while"
bdkinz: right
brdmstryx: and he'll pop in and out
bdkinz: and he will not understand
brdmstryx: how long is this acceptable for?
bdkinz: well, lets see. man needing space – forever. though it is different for each one
brdmstryx: how long can he disappear for?
bdkinz: how long has it been
brdmstryx: what's an acceptable amount of time?
bdkinz: I don’t know; depends
brdmstryx: ok. how about this - go on a date, fall off the planet for 2 months. is that ok?
bdkinz: that’s too long. and not acceptable
brdmstryx: yeah! it is too long! or here's another scenario. the 'i like you but i'm not ready to date you' line
bdkinz: hey, women do that one as well.
brdmstryx: what are we supposed to do with these guys? push them into dating early?
bdkinz: no
brdmstryx: drop them as friends?
bdkinz: but be less pushy sometimes
brdmstryx: spend painful time with them liking them more and more, knowing that it's going to escalate and end badly?
bdkinz: and no, but make the friendship not so central
bdkinz: look dani, I wish I understood . personally, I would never do such a thing
brdmstryx: my point is, in my experience, i have encountered tons of guys who like girls, but don't want to commit to anything. and so they dangle us (me). ok. Let’s admit this is about me.
bdkinz: i know it is
brdmstryx: i know, but i have to stop referring to myself as 'us', as if I speak for all womankind. when do i have the right to say "dude, make a decision or i walk"?
bdkinz: whenever you want
brdmstryx: or can i never say it because men want to be in control?
bdkinz: and sometimes sooner than you do. you can. and it might scare one of them too much
brdmstryx: but then i'm taking control away from the men
bdkinz: right, but you’re not, because they have to know you might accept it, and you are giving them a choice. I admit, it is a vicious cycle
brdmstryx: but then he's gonna have to commit to his choice. none of this "i'm not dating you now, but i want all the perks i've had while you thought i was courting you"
bdkinz: that is unacceptable. and you shouldn’t do that
brdmstryx: none of this "i still want to be able to spend all of my time with you, hold your hand, go with you places on a regular basis". not dating me is not dating me. and that also means no jealousy when i date other people. no breaking that up, presumably to date me, just to say "oh, i'm not ready"
bdkinz: then make it clear. but part of your problem is you don’t make it clear always. and I understand that
brdmstryx: but then i'm taking control away from him. cause he either has to let me go, or try for something more
bdkinz: ok, I see. let me think
brdmstryx: and that he is quite the plural.
bdkinz: I am aware. may I be honest with you
brdmstryx: yes. you sometimes throw yours
elf at someone too quickly. hoping for something
brdmstryx: yes. i am too intense
bdkinz: and then sometimes giving more than you should
brdmstryx: and i build off of that intensity. ah…
bdkinz: both emotionally and even physically sometimes
brdmstryx: that good old why the buy the cow if you get the milk for free theory
bdkinz: right. men want their women to be hard to get. but willing to fall for them
brdmstryx: so i should pull back from ppl
bdkinz: a little
brdmstryx: i don’t know if i can
bdkinz: I know. it is hard
brdmstryx: when i pull back my defenses go up. and i'm not as nice as i like to be. cause i'm all concerned with making sure i don't get hurt. when i forget about getting hurt, i open up to people and let them get to know me. otherwise i'm cold, v hard to get to, and i don’t like that person at all
bdkinz: then don’t be it, but don’t be open the same way
brdmstryx: but this is not about me. this is about guys
bdkinz: yes and no
brdmstryx: doing stupid guy things. and about me to the extent that i test them. i push them
bdkinz: and tell them too much
brdmstryx: i see how strong they are
bdkinz: and you want to be strong too
brdmstryx: yes
bdkinz: and man no like that
brdmstryx: but i'm looking for someone stronger then me. in every way. because my strength is false
bdkinz: I know. but they don’t see themselves as such
brdmstryx: then they're not worth my time. and i should kick them to curb (to quote noam)
bdkinz: but the only ones who know that are those who can get close to you, and those are your friends, who aren’t on the radar
brdmstryx: so back to my original thesis of the year - i'm never going to get married
bdkinz: you will
brdmstryx: because i'm never going to have a successful relationship, because i'm looking for someone strong, who obviously doesn't exist, if they all get scared off by what looks like me being strong. i've told you many times, the most attractive trait in a male for me is his level of aggression. his ability to say 'I want this' and to try to get/achieve it. coupled with healthy respect for others, and of course smart enough for me to respect... but that alpha male bit, i love it. i need it. cause i'm not at all like that, for all that i pretend
bdkinz: and the man wants to know that. and there needs to be a balance
brdmstryx: you should see how tame i am when i'm around guys like that. it's hysterical. balance of what sort?
bdkinz: between your strength. which isn’t false. and your need for him to be the alpha male
brdmstryx: i may be strong as compared to most women in our little world,
bdkinz: not just in our world
brdmstryx: but i'm still a woman. i need to feel protected
bdkinz: no one is denying that. and that is what the man wants to do
brdmstryx: and once i trust someone,
bdkinz: you give everything to him too fast, emotionally
brdmstryx: i need to feel that he can be given control over me at times. no, i really don't. i hold back in ways you couldn’t begin to imagine
bdkinz: ok
brdmstryx: and someone worth their salt would call me on it in two seconds flat. and a few have
bdkinz: and then what happens
brdmstryx: then he walks away
bdkinz: why
brdmstryx: because he cares too much. and lord help me if i know what that means
bdkinz: I don’t know what that means
brdmstryx: he regrets it in the end, but moves on, and i'm left v confused. and v annoyed with males in general. and then, we're back to our dilemma. most of them get stuck in the 'i can't decide' phase. which annoys me quickly. i lose patience and respect. it's emasculating not know what you're doing, and not attractive to see
bdkinz: ok
brdmstryx: so when a guy is in that state and i'm stuck there with him, it usually ends with me telling him to go away. Ok. *almost* always. and if it ends up that he chooses to go, at that point i've already lost so much respect for him that our friendship has forever changed. not that i mind someone taking their time to get to know someone. not that ppl have to be ready the second i am. but it's not fair to put a reserved sign on my nose, and expect i'll leave it there for months. or a year. with nothing to hold me to it. i am too ADD to sit and wait.
bdkinz: but you do sometimes. and they know it
brdmstryx: no, i bounce all over in the middle . and if they don’t know that, G-d bless them for their ignorance
bdkinz: right, but the person is still on your radar
brdmstryx: yeah, to some degree. but just enough for me to get mildly irritated, not to want to date him
bdkinz: right. I wish I understood what they are missing
brdmstryx: i don't know. i wish i understood why i keep meeting them. this is why i duck down every few months and refuse to deal with ppl who are interested in me. it's a v depressing process, constantly being let down by ppl. i feel like i should start off assuming he's a jerk, and i'll be better off
bdkinz: I don’t know
brdmstryx: what are the options? so, back to the original dilemma. guys like control. but if left to their own devices, guys are stupid. girls need to create rules to hold guys to
bdkinz: and they do
brdmstryx: but girls don't like that
bdkinz: hence the old statement, the guy is whipped. I know
brdmstryx: girls wants guys to hold to rules by virtu
e of his being... virtuous. so something needs to give. which is why every so often i decide i should be shomeret
bdkinz: and maybe you should
brdmstryx: but that's not really the solution
bdkinz: because that would create a boundary
brdmstryx: just a stopgap filler
bdkinz: yes and no
brdmstryx: then i think i shouldn't open up
bdkinz: or draw a line, but those are different
brdmstryx: but when someone asks a question, i answer
bdkinz: I see
brdmstryx: it's in my nature. the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth <grin>. my policy
i need to point out that there are no conclusions here. so please leave your comments or a note on the blog board.
thanks...
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