I’m told that the divorce rate is rocketing out of control, both in the general Orthodox Jewish world and, specifically, the YU world. My first day as a YU student, R’ Dr. Norman Lamm came and addressed us in Koch auditorium to talk to us about dating. His message essentially was that people shouldn’t feel pressured into any decision because other people have created standards and time limits, such as deciding at the 4 month point whether or not you’re ready to get engaged. He also cited a common belief at Stern that graduating while single is tantamount to a tragedy, and at the very least is embarrassing for many girls. He stated that there is nothing to be ashamed of if you are are still single when you finish college.
It’s funny. ‘Polarized’ is a word that’s thrown around a lot these days in regards to YU, but I don’t know if anyone else has applied it to the dating scene. I’m about to. The way I see it, there have been two responses to the marriage thing, both born out from stress. One is this tendency to rush into marriage, which accounts for that divorce rate we see. The other is to back off and be overly wary, which results in what has sadly become a cliche - a community like the Upper West Side.
I have this theory about people my age. I think we’re used to a very comfortable life, with instant gratification coming out of our ears. Hey, I love it, but I think that maybe it’s a little unhealthy that my life (at times) can go something like this:
I’m online, on AIM, MSN, and Yahoo Messenger. My cell phone is on. When I’m not on AIM, my messages are forwarded to my cell phone, or for true convenience, I can IM and email from my phone as well. I have web based email, which I can check anywhere that there is a phone line on my laptop which I carry everywhere. As I’m online, I’m watching movies on demand or TV shows on demand on cable, because it’s much more convenient than waiting ‘til the regularly programmed stuff comes on. And if I get hungry, I most likely would grab something out of the freezer, pop it in the microwave, and be eating within 2 minutes. I’ve been at the point where a website that took more than five seconds to load had me cursing the internet gods, where i won’t make food because I’d have to invest a good 10 minutes of my time into the preparation of it, and royally pissed off when my cell phone dies and I’m unreachable for half an hour.
Does any of this sounds familiar?
I can’t imagine adjusting to a life where I share my time and space with someone else, continuously. Where I can’t just retreat behind a computer screen, or throw up an away message - or just let the call go to voice mail. I’m so used to being in immediate control of the situations I’m in that moving back in with my parents for the summer is sorely trying my patience. Totally forgivable, they’re demands are ridiculous: go to bed at a decent time. Spend less time on the computer (especially IMing). Clean my room. Wash my dishes. And when do I have to do all of this? At *their* convenience. Halleluya, Jafar... I like my independence. (Unreasonable, my parents, aren’t they?)
So I can see how someone who’s a product of this remarkably self-centered world can have a tough time adjusting to being one-of-two. Needing to take someone else’s schedule and feelings to heart. Are we equipped to deal head on with arguments in real time? Do we know how to take time to cool off, listen to one another, truly forgive someone?
So, one solution that many people I have spoken to seem to favor is having people start couples’ therapy as soon as they’re engaged. That bugs me on some level, probably the part of me that doesn’t like to feel dependent. But also because it doesn’t resolve the question of how to get people to the point of getting engaged. It used to be men who had all the commitment issues, but I’m seeing more and women who simply do not want to change their (comfortable) life-styles. I think i’m done for now because it’s v late and I seem to have no real solutions. please leave me your thoughts on what I had to say - I might be totally off base here and simply describing myself. : )
1. a reader left...
ReplyDeleteFriday, 27 June 2003 8:50 am
I must begin by commending you on your assessments for I think most of them are correct. It is very difficult to recognize the need to care for someone else and not simply live a life where everyone takes care of you.
The first thing I recommend that people learn is the ability to properly apologize for their mistakes. (Of course, I personally have been known to apologize way too much. Nothing in extremes is good, including constant guilt). This means simply recognizing the feelings of other human beings, realizing that often we do things that offend others. We need to recognize the value of all people. Of course, this is a general statement, but obviously should be taken into account in a relationship.
Having said that, I now turn to the more intimate relationship, beginning with dating, and continuing through engagement and marriage. I believe that the first step to building a strong relationship is trust. It is not simply trusting your significant other with your feelings and innermost thoughts. A mutual trust needs to exist where the two people feel comfortable talking to each other about the relationship. And i dont mean simply waking up one day and saying to the other person, "oh, its been X amount of time, are we getting engaged or not?" I mean once in a while, discuss how the relationship is progressing and whether it is going the way you both want it to. Now, granted this is a scary proposition, but quite frankly, the skills we learn while dating will be very important later (I think). The two people need to be able to talk to each other.
ReplyDeleteOK, enough for the moment. When I come up with more, I might add it into the comments.
Bryan
2. a reader left...
ReplyDeleteFriday, 27 June 2003 10:56 am
you knwo i come from a fmaily that makes then bundys, the family guy and simpsons seem almost normal by comparison i think that in this day and age of being overwhelmed by technology and ignorance \ppl need to say jsut because we can do something des nto mean we have to. i personally take my days slow and steady adn only push myself to my limit..not beyond because when it comes down to it its all about u and me not money not control..but real happiness...what do you think?
ari
3. a reader left...
ReplyDeleteFriday, 27 June 2003 11:13 am
and *now* you know why I didn't date much when I was at YU...
(Okay, there was also the complete and utter lack of geek-friendly frum single girls at YU and apparently the world in general...)
Seriously, the highly charged, and yes, polarized environment of the YU community and the NY Jewish community as a whole is one of the reasons I moved back to Boston, and don't really plan on returning. It's hard enough finding someone I click with and am attracted to, throw in the added stresses and it gets insane. My non-frum and non-Jewish friends worry about whether or not they should have sex on the third date. *I'm* expected to worry about whether or not I want to get engaged? yeesh. No matter how much you love someone, and may enjoy dating them, you simply don't know enough about them after four months to make that decision. My parents dated for five years before they got married.
Five. Years.
The longest I've heard of any of my friends dating prior to marriage was two years, and that's only because their respective parents wouldn't pay for the wedding until the finished college. They almost eloped.
ReplyDeleteBloody insane.
Of the three serious relationships I've been in, two of them had divorced parents.
You could say "Well So-and-so's parents weren't Jewish, and such-and-such's parents aren't frum, so they doesn't count."
Hardly.
Not knowing as much as possible about your partner as a person *and* as a potential spouse is only setting yourself up for a fall.
Ari B.
4. Dani Weiss left...
ReplyDeleteFriday, 27 June 2003 3:52 pm
this comes from my friend ben:
I don't understand the part of YU being polarized because that would imply it only had 2 conflicting opinions. YU seems to be more of a grab bag, find any opinion you want then go in the street and preach it like a parrot. Young couples though should consider the option of couple thearpy. The idea of thearpy is always a feared one because people probally think "omg, you think I'm crazy don't you?!" Asking someone to go to thearphy then is somehow a serious shock to their ego and sense of self.
A psychologist though has been trained to help assist people in finding out their problems and then creating ways to solve them. A psychologist does clinical work with people who have to wash their hands 100 times day and also does work with normal jewish teenagers who have no idea (or a silly idea) about marriage. It's just like a coach training someone to bring out their best, together they accomplished a great feat through hard work. Life problems and medot are very hard to understand or manage sometimes, I think a young couple seeing a psychologist would be good before and after marriage. If anyone is interested, EFT is a type of couple thearpy which has supposedly helped many marriages.
5. a reader left...
ReplyDeleteFriday, 27 June 2003 7:10 pm
what happend to the old ways?
what we are forgetting is that we are differant then the rest of the world, we are Jews.
when one lives for themselvs then no one will ever make you happy. we have Torah and mitzvos to keep reminding us that we have a perpose. there is a higher reason then me in this world. when your hungry and pass a mc donalds, it's not kosher so i'll find a fruit, a granola bar, a what have you, till i can eat something. when you go out with some one the minute you get physical your throughing out the spice of the relation ship. if youve taysed the fruit then the waiting is taken away. when you wait for something when you get it, it's so much more to you.
i think Shiduchim is a big answer to the problem that is being discussed. if your looking for marraige then you meet people that are like minded and ready for it. in a shiduch you see in the biggining if this is some one you want to spend the rest of your life with. before you start you should know what it is that you want, meening what do i want my children raised as. the first mitzva is "be fruitfull and multiply" it says that once Hashem created the world all he does is make shiduchim. meaning that all we go through is to prepare us for our match and so then once that happens we are there to bring in our children and help them get there.
ReplyDeleteHillel said "don't do unto your fellow that you would not want done unto you, the rest is comintery". people is a big part (if not the one reason) of the one and only's plan.
Hashem removed himeself and made place for a physical world, that is love. when we learn to make place in ourselvs to the point that the other person means more to us then the self, we wont have divorces.
a lover of life